Like all euro-sceptics, Norman is obsessed with Europe.
But the problem is far more than just the EU.
It is also ;
Council on Foreign Relations
Global Corporate Fascism
The United States of America
The New World Order.
And all the rest of the globalist, supra-national, trans-national governmental, corporate and inter governmental nexus that ensnares our world.
Freedom from the EU does not bring us freedom itself.
It is a step on the path to Liberty, but our destination of national Liberty is far more distant than can be taken with just a single step.
The advocates of an ever closer union leading to the European Empire have won the day again. Put aside the arguments about whether yet another Greek bailout will be enough to calm the markets. There will probably be another one after that.
More important by far is the cat let out of the bag by President Sarkozy. He set out the truth of the matter plainly enough: “Our ambition is to seize the Greek crisis to make a quantum leap in Eurozone government.” That, of course, has always been the purpose of the single currency. No one with any pretence of economic reality ever believed that the currency could survive without a single finance ministry and a single tax system which would create a single pan-European government.
It is a long time since I challenged the then Chancellor, Ken Clarke, to name a currency which had more than one Chancellor of the Exchequer to its name. If the euro is to survive, then, the financial management of the eurozone has to be concentrated to one organisation. Two, let alone 22, treasuries is too many.
Again, Sarkozy made that clear. As he put it, he and Angela Merkel have plans for an embryonic EU treasury by way of the European Monetary Fund, and would soon propose plans for “economic government” in the eurozone.
In the meantime enough will be squeezed out of the German taxpayers and perhaps the private sector to keep the Greek economy on a life-support system that will preclude any substantial reduction of its debts or significant economic recovery. The unfortunate Greeks have been given all possible forms of assistance except actual help. They will be allowed to default on their debts, but to gain no advantage from doing so.
There were three possible options to resolve this crisis. One was to allow Greece to leave the eurozone, recreate a devalued drachma and reinvigorate its economy. The second was to create two eurozones, the northern “hard” eurozone and the southern “soft” eurozone, which could pre-empt the potential Portuguese, Spanish and Italian crises. The third, which Merkel, Sarkozy and the Commission have chosen, is to march on towards their dream of “ever closer union” in the grand European Empire stretching from the Atlantic across the continent of Europe, down to (or even beyond) the Mediterranean and through Turkey into Asia.
There is a great problem in that vision. It has not been achieved since Roman times. It has been attempted time and time again from the time of Philip of Spain to that of Adolf Hitler and Joseph Stalin without success.
Now in the 21st Century it will have to overcome the nationalism of European states in its modern form of a demand for democracy, but as Enoch Powell declared long ago that could not work on a pan-European scale since “there is no European Demos”.
The EU already has the legal status of a state: it has a flag, anthem, frontiers, a Foreign Ministry, embassies, a defence force, courts, judges, a currency and now, before long, a Treasury and a Chancellor of the Exchequer. If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck.
The trouble is that it will be a lame duck state since it is being imposed without the consent of the peoples of Europe. And without that Demos of citizens sharing newspapers, language, cultures, habits, political parties and more which is essential for it to be a democracy, the riots will not be confined to Athens. They will proliferate and spread, because the people will lack the power to control those who govern them.
We are entering a European autumn. The winter will inexorably follow and we can only hope that a European Spring will not be long delayed.
In the meantime, at our parochial United Kingdom level all these events are putting some extra strain on the Coalition. The Prime Minister it seems might be minded to take advantage of a situation in which unanimity might be required in the Council for steps to buttress the euro by making his consent conditional on securing concessions or safeguards for this country. Mr Clegg on the other hand seems to regard that as unsporting at best and unprincipled at worst.
If the Prime Minister has any sense he will do what is needed to please British voters, not his Deputy, particularly as the next election approaches.
Those responsible for EU fisheries policy did not find many (or should that be any) friends amongst you this week. In fact the EU itself found few enough friends. I think peta was an apologist for it writing about the terrible things that our “friends” in Europe might do to us if we left. Most of them would be illegal under the WTO. They would also do as much damage to other EU states as to us.
He also observed that I was a member of a government which tolerated the fisheries policy. Exactly so. As boudicca wrote, there is no possibility that, as Hague would have us believe, that one can be in the EU, but not run by it. Not only tea addict, but many more including norto and rapscallion agreed on that.
As kubizek said Heath gave control of fisheries away in 1972, and as auld fermer noted he has a lot to answer for. Then european 387 asked who voted for it. Well, I have to put my hand up. I did. So did most other MPs, and at the 1970 election and in the 1977 referendum most electors did so too. Since then most of us have changed our minds in the light of experience.
Some of you like bob3 feel there is no point in moaning about the EU since we are stuck with it, whilst lord lucan hopes that it will end with a whimper, but as hagar asserted it still aims to create a single European government.
Then darkseid was amongst the optimists hoping it will self-destruct and come back as the EEC. That hope was echoed by Laveen Ladharam in another thoughtful post. I am sure that we would all want to wish him well on his graduation and for his further studies.
The great majority of posts however including those from norto, stopcpdotcom, Lucy Brown, crownarmourer,incensed, rosina, Bill Etheridge, pjon, raw, youtakejohn and others were simply in favour of getting out.
There was a fair point made by bubbles 15 that we should have an authoritative unbiased audit of the costs and benefits of our membership of the EU. That is something for which my friend Lord Pearson has asked again and again, but the Europhiles always say “No”. At least timaction gave us a good list of the costs involved. Then boester said no one represents the average Englishman, lord lucan made the shrewd point that no one listens to the ordinary people across the EU.
I was glad that Oberstleutnent picked up the point that fish stocks will only be sustainable as long as someone owns them and can profit from that ownership. I cannot agree, nor could alhamilton, with izman and fly in the sky that if stocks collapse, fishing will cease and stocks will increase again.
Non-edible species will move in to dominate the environment left vacant, as indeed we are seeing with the increasing numbers of jellyfish whose predators we have probably eaten. The science of forecasting the outcome of our predation of some species of fish is not exact but in answer to diamalcon I think we can believe the statistics.
Like fenbeagle I believe our fishermen deserve our support and I think bellebrise was talking nonsense to say that as the industry is concentrated in Scotland no one cared about it.
There were the usual arguments about UKIP from the usual suspects, but although darkseid was dismissive of the party, boudicca was right to point out that Lord Glasman (the Labour peer) has been making some powerful arguments about the EU and immigration and as durnovia wrote UKIP membership is rising while that of other parties is falling.
General Patton was in broad agreement with me but asked what is the support for that view amongst Tory MPs. Frankly, I do not know, but I suspect it is substantial and I am sure it is growing.
There was a merry dispute between lord lucan and tepid cocoa 1983 involving technical expressions entirely unfamiliar to me, nor, I fear could I understand the point made by Robinson F. However I appreciated the courtesy of Robbie Bell in a very pleasant post.
Finally, I think your comments on the crisis over the euro are addressed above.